1.71.5.204-B20160823
Over 2 months since the dissappearance of MH370 ... it has become awfully quiet
in this particular investigation.

\%/@rd

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1.71.5.204-B20160823
Re: MH370
By: Ward Dossche to All on Sat May 17 2014 12:49:34

Over 2 months since the dissappearance of MH370 ... it has become awfully

quiet

in this particular investigation.

The participating governments in question have decided that the
public's ADHD attention span in the countries that they are trying to
control dissent within has been kept long enough, and that they will now
resume pursuing interests in their regularly scheduled sporting events
and alcohol consumption.

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1.71.5.204-B20160823
Re: Re: MH370
By: Paul Hayton to Ward Dossche on Sat May 17 2014 23:51:00

I think hey simply have no idea where it is... despite reports of pings heard etc. It's a big ocean.

That doesn't take into account the technological capabilities
and sophistication of the air defense networks and satellite technology
of the governments involved in tracking these kinds of matters, though.
It is a huge ocean, yes, but in comparison to our capabilities, that
kind of a blunder is highly unlikely, especially since the 13 years
since 9/11.

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1.71.5.204-B20160823
On 05-17-14, Ward Dossche pondered and said...

Over 2 months since the dissappearance of MH370 ... it has become
awfully quiet in this particular investigation.

I think hey simply have no idea where it is... despite reports of pings
heard etc. It's a big ocean.

|15`|03I am not expendable, I'm not stupid, and I'm not going.|15'
- |09Kerr Avon | Blake's 7 | blakes7.com | 1978 - 1981

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Re: Re: MH370
By: Ward Dossche to Damon A. Getsman on Sun May 18 2014 11:23:06

Over the oceans there is no tracking. Aircraft virtually fly in the
blind.

After an aircraft behaves how this one was said to have behaved
the last time that it was tracked on radar? Not likely.
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1.71.5.204-B20160823

That doesn't take into account the technological capabilities
and sophistication of the air defense networks and satellite technology
of the governments involved in tracking these kinds of matters, though.
It is a huge ocean, yes, but in comparison to our capabilities, that
kind of a blunder is highly unlikely, especially since the 13 years
since 9/11.

Over the oceans there is no tracking. Aircraft virtually fly in the blind.

\%/@rd

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1.71.5.204-B20160823
On 05-18-14, Ward Dossche pondered and said...

Over the oceans there is no tracking. Aircraft virtually fly in the
blind.

But there's GPS isn't there?

|15`|03I am not expendable, I'm not stupid, and I'm not going.|15'
- |09Kerr Avon | Blake's 7 | blakes7.com | 1978 - 1981

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1.71.5.204-B20160823
Re: Re: MH370
By: Ward Dossche to Damon A. Getsman on Mon May 19 2014 08:42:32

Over the oceans there is no tracking. Aircraft virtually fly in the blind.

After an aircraft behaves how this one was said to have behaved
the last time that it was tracked on radar? Not likely.

Once behind the horizon, there is no radar tracking... yet.

This is true. I should have been more precise.

So radar coverage over the horizon is impossible. The area that
any one terrestrial-based tower or array can cover is determined by the
height of the broadcasting array above mean horizon level, no? This is
a discrete cut-off of return detection when 'mean' horizon level
deviates only a little from 'physical' horizon level, I believe. So if
the surface is not permeabale or completely absorbant to the radar
energy, radar returns die a certain distance out; if it is absorbing, permeabale, or alternating (ie undulating water), radar returns die
within a range of distances out.
What else do we need to be aware of? Black box coverage; the
actual contents of this device are purported to contain multiple
different apparatuses. The capabilities of this are definitely in
question when an incident such as this occurs. Digging down into the
posts surrounding the current incident will reveal precisely why in
short time; it may only be conjecture and based on unverifiable evidence
at this point in the public eye, but there are thoughts that NORAD and
other defense/intelligence agencies may well be able to grab control of
any plane with the appropriate black box models as well as to control
the aircraft's behavior in other circumstances such as complete
communications severance, and the like. Theories such as the one about
the 'threat neutralization' protocol for hijacked, high-risk planes such
as ones carrying live physical hijackers, come into play. One such
protocol for dealing with these situations involves flying the plane up
above 40k feet and depressurizing the entire plane for long enough so
that everyone alive onboard will succumb to hypothermia and not have
sufficient canned air/oxygen backup to be able to weather the trip into
the upper atmosphere alive on passenger backup supplies available.
Data communcations... AX.25 I would assume? No doubt some sort
of connections with the 3/4G networks occur, along with cellular
communications via satellite and custom links. In service internet
coverage being available on international flights makes this pretty
obvious.
So no radar tracking... I'll agree. From ground-based towers.
Anything else? I'm thinking it's unlikely that they escaped from the
scopes and readouts on every network that's got contact with them.

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1.71.5.204-B20160823

Over the oceans there is no tracking. Aircraft virtually fly in the blind.

After an aircraft behaves how this one was said to have behaved
the last time that it was tracked on radar? Not likely.

Once behind the horizon, there is no radar tracking... yet.

\%/@rd

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1.71.5.204-B20160823

Over the oceans there is no tracking. Aircraft virtually fly in the PH>WD> blind.

But there's GPS isn't there?

Yes. It tells you where 'you' are, but it doesn't tell you where other planes are.

GPS in aviation basically helps the crew and the plane cross uncharted territory without any known NAV-markers, but since there still is no automatic loop-back system for the GPS-signal, a plane cannot be tracked yet once it's outside radar-boundaries.

An example.

When a plane flies from London, England to New York then at some point it will receive its oceanic clearance from Shanwick EGGX, these are the powerfull transmitters from Shannon, Ireland operated from a control center in Prestwick,
Scotland.

Shanwick and Gander CZQX have contact twice a day and based on current wind-systems and weather-patterns will determine 7 oceanic westbound tracks called A->G (eastbound tracks are S->X).

Each track also has layers (5 I think). These tracks are separated by about 50 nautical miles and I think there's a vertical separation of 500ft.

Once planes get their oceanic clearance they depart on the assigned track and fly it with GPS. The accuracy is astonishing and after 4-5 hours over water they have a max deviation of a few meters. Prior to GPS they did it with inertial navigation and they could swerve about 2 miles off track but with the 50 nautical miles separation they were safe until picked-up by radar again at the end of their over-water run.

Once beyond the curvature of Earth, there is "NO" radar tracking anymore and they're on their own. Every 5 degrees each plane needs to report passing that longitudinal waypoint and give an estimated time of when it will pass the next 2 waypoints. That's the only thing that Shanwick and Gander have to keep planes
separated over the Atlantic.

ATC is blind and needs to rely on airplane reports and planes themselves are also blind with 2 remarks:

1) They have GPS and they know where they are
2) They also have TCAS (Traffic Collision Avoidance System) which automatically
communicates with the TCAS of other planes in the vicinity and knows where they are and what they're doing. In case of a potential collision it will order
one plane down and another plane up.

Added issues for Shanwick and Gander is that all planes do not fly at the same speed. A 747's cruising speed is higher than a 767/757/777 which then again is faster than the 737s being used in transatlantic service. They need to take care for example they do not put a 747 behind a 737 because that will result in
a "fender-bender".

There is also a very northerly track system for flights originating in Europe and going non-stop to the North American westcoast. There are southerly tracks over the Azores and then there are the tracks for South America.

A similar track-system also exists for example over the Pacific and on US<->Hawaii flights.

This all means that once a plane is behind the curvature of the Earth and radar
cannot see it anymore (it needs a direct line of view) ATC has no clue what happens to it nor where it is. We all rely on the progress reports by the pilots, but if there's a rogue pilot or something really unexpected/unknown occurs, then it is looking for a needle in a haystack.

Take care,

\%/@rd

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1.71.5.204-B20160823
Hello Ward!

17 May 2014 12:49, Ward Dossche wrote to All:

Over 2 months since the dissappearance of MH370 ... it has become
awfully quiet in this particular investigation.

yes sadly we do not see the fligt anymore, to deep to get up :(


Regards Benny

... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

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1.71.5.204-B20160823
Hello Benny!

Wednesday August 06 2014 22:09, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

Over 2 months since the dissappearance of MH370 ... it has become
awfully quiet in this particular investigation.

yes sadly we do not see the fligt anymore, to deep to get up :(

A specialized firm "Fugro" has been awarded a contract for scanning a defined
section of the ocean. They will use two ships the Equator and the Discovery as
well as a Hugin 1000 autonomous submarine.

Fugro is specialized in charting the ocean bottom.

Kees

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